Let me give you a heartening counter-example. I teach CS 428 (“real-world software engineering”) at Brigham Young University and have been doing so for six years. It’s an elective class, not required, but I get anywhere from 30 to 80 computer science seniors each semester, fall and winter. I teach it as a ‘survival’ course to prepare them to work in the real world. I have them read some classic works in the field, as well as some of my own posts and articles, and I tell them lots of stories from my industry experience verifying all the things they read.
Oh, and I turn 70 next month. That “industry experience” spans almost 50 years.
The CS department has already asked me to teach this coming fall and winter as well. I’m happy to keep doing it as long as I can, because I’m passionate about the subject, and because I keep getting emails from former students that say, “It’s true. Everything you said is true.” 🤣
This is the best of your Substack posts that I have read. It could very easily be turned into a head-turning book. But does anyone read books these days? Am I the last?
Ezra Levant (don't recall the year): “Universities are now just daycare for millennials who don’t want to grow up, whose only real purpose is to become little soldiers of political correctness and radical activists. I’m not calling for a ban on anything. Except a ban on forcing the rest of us to pay for this crap.”
One of the first benefits we noted in having a neighborhood homeschool years ago was the blessing of diversity of ages in the kids. Everyone got along and enjoyed each other with an age span of almost 10 years. The kids enjoyed the variety of lessons at different levels as they got to "sit in" with the lessons of the older kids. Overall it was a hoot with about 20 kids meeting at different homes during the year. I believe every one of "our kids" saw it through HS graduation and succeeded to voc-tech, community college or local university. And every one is now a person who is pleasant to be around.
This age ghettoization occurs when parents allow it to occur. My first job was at 16, during the summer before my senior HS year. In a department store stationery department, I was paid $1 an hour to reunite greeting cards and their misfiled envelopes. Admit it, you do it, too - you look at a card and then put it back in the wrong slot. Because we were poor, I never felt demeaned by this work and I was very happy to get paid each week. My next job, summers between college years 1 and 3, I was a switchboard operator. Think Lily Tomlin and the wires and plugs. For $2 an hour. I was proud of that job and did so well, my boss "promoted" me to sorting the office mail and paying the bills. It never would have occurred to my parents for me not to have a job. I was surrounded by adults of all ages and persuasions and learned from them. Fast forward, when my son came along, he started working at age 4. He made 25 cents per chore - putting away all his toys every evening, bringing in the mail, taking out the garbage - and he had to pay for his own toys (no allowance). He learned the value of money at that tender age. The moment he could get his working papers (14), I persuaded him to get a job teaching little kids how to swim at the local YMCA. He learned to deal with little kids and their obnoxious, overbearing parents. Within 2 years, he was a lifeguard, although he still picked up shifts as an instructor. He actually saved someone from drowning. He's a stable Millennial now; good job, own apartment, more savings than most of his contemporaries. It would never have occurred to me for him not to get that first job at 14. See, it is the parents who either encourage their children to grow up and become a productive part of the community, or not. Sure, as a society we should be un-ghettoizing the age groups, but my society starts in my home. Think globally; act locally.
John Taylor Gatto, educator and education scholar, argued that age-segregated schooling was a Prussian innovation--to create soldiers and bureaucrats who would take orders. In mixed-aged schooling, older kids take responsibility for guiding the younger ones. Not good for Bismarck’s vision.
When I was in junior girl scouts, in the late 70s and before they went woke, I took an official Red Cross babysitting class. I remember that the guidelines were that you could babysit during the day at age 10, and at night at 11. Today, if your parents let you out of their sight at that age, they'd be arrested and you'd be in foster care.
I think the discussion needs to expand to include expectations. We were expected to have a paper route around age 10, to wash cars, mow lawns, shovel snow, all to earn some money. After school and summer jobs normal. In turn we expected to be outside all day unsupervised, to ride the bike to the lake or river, or take a long hike. Always have a dime in your pocket for a phone call, and be home for dinner.
Acting responsibly is a response to being expected to behave responsibly.
Who benefits from the current segregation? The teachers and those who manage the stratification. Back in the day there were 92 kids in one class in First Grade, and all Grades were in the same school. Recess had hundreds of kids outside. Way to hard a problem for the teachers, although the students were well behaved. Everyone packed their own lunch, just like Dad did. Discipline was administered on the spot, and parents respected that role for the teachers.
Short summary: Expectations matter. We need more of them at all levels.
One great thing about things as diverse as fraternal orders (say Masons or Eagles) and martial arts (traditional styles) was the range of ages. Both had people from 18 (fraternal) or mid teens (15-16) through to their 90s. And in both, to be part of the club, you have to work hard and do it right. The ability to talk to someone 1o to 50 years older on an equal footing help a boy grow a lot.
These observations are unquestionably true, especially when you contemplate that as recently as the Second World War we were sending troops into combat who were overwhelmingly 17-20 years old. The average age in the Eighth Air Force was 19, and a pilot who was 22 was “Pops”. Teenagers were driving tanks, launching torpedos, parachuting into hostile territory.
Today they fall into a fetal position if subjected to a micro aggression.
Made me think about my own growing up time. My parents had some means, but at age 12 I still had a lawn mowing business (10 yards every week). At age 14, I had a 70 customer paper route. I’d also caddy at the local golf course. At 17, I pumped gas and cleaned windshields at a gas station. I didn’t think this was unusual. It’s just what one did! Having good work and money making habits are very positive things to develop. (My adolescence was in the 1960s.) [My parents came of age during the Depression and I heard many, many stories about the tough times of the 1930s.]
Without getting too political its clear to me that Dems first weaponized age differences to appeal to seniors and fear monger "pushing granny off the cliff", Social Security etc, then tribalized and trivialized youth niches from Occupy to Antifa, to climate apocalyptic cultist, and now that progtarded marxist tribal alliance is going after them...the despised Boomers who screwed them over and killing the planet.
It wont end well.
Granny Pelosi and Crazy Auntie Maxine got some 'splainin' to do...
Very eye-opening article to me as a parent of a 19 yo college student. It opened my eyes to greater differences between the youth of today and my part-time jobs in high school and college, where I was always the youngest employee learning from others with decades of experience. I (and he) will benefit from the insights you gave me. Thank you!
I agree completely Glenn. I learned way more from working around older adults than I ever did in concrete jungles of school where the most savage were respected. We need to break up age segregation again and let the young learn alongside their elders who set a good example.
Let me give you a heartening counter-example. I teach CS 428 (“real-world software engineering”) at Brigham Young University and have been doing so for six years. It’s an elective class, not required, but I get anywhere from 30 to 80 computer science seniors each semester, fall and winter. I teach it as a ‘survival’ course to prepare them to work in the real world. I have them read some classic works in the field, as well as some of my own posts and articles, and I tell them lots of stories from my industry experience verifying all the things they read.
Oh, and I turn 70 next month. That “industry experience” spans almost 50 years.
The CS department has already asked me to teach this coming fall and winter as well. I’m happy to keep doing it as long as I can, because I’m passionate about the subject, and because I keep getting emails from former students that say, “It’s true. Everything you said is true.” 🤣
This is the best of your Substack posts that I have read. It could very easily be turned into a head-turning book. But does anyone read books these days? Am I the last?
Ezra Levant (don't recall the year): “Universities are now just daycare for millennials who don’t want to grow up, whose only real purpose is to become little soldiers of political correctness and radical activists. I’m not calling for a ban on anything. Except a ban on forcing the rest of us to pay for this crap.”
One of the first benefits we noted in having a neighborhood homeschool years ago was the blessing of diversity of ages in the kids. Everyone got along and enjoyed each other with an age span of almost 10 years. The kids enjoyed the variety of lessons at different levels as they got to "sit in" with the lessons of the older kids. Overall it was a hoot with about 20 kids meeting at different homes during the year. I believe every one of "our kids" saw it through HS graduation and succeeded to voc-tech, community college or local university. And every one is now a person who is pleasant to be around.
This age ghettoization occurs when parents allow it to occur. My first job was at 16, during the summer before my senior HS year. In a department store stationery department, I was paid $1 an hour to reunite greeting cards and their misfiled envelopes. Admit it, you do it, too - you look at a card and then put it back in the wrong slot. Because we were poor, I never felt demeaned by this work and I was very happy to get paid each week. My next job, summers between college years 1 and 3, I was a switchboard operator. Think Lily Tomlin and the wires and plugs. For $2 an hour. I was proud of that job and did so well, my boss "promoted" me to sorting the office mail and paying the bills. It never would have occurred to my parents for me not to have a job. I was surrounded by adults of all ages and persuasions and learned from them. Fast forward, when my son came along, he started working at age 4. He made 25 cents per chore - putting away all his toys every evening, bringing in the mail, taking out the garbage - and he had to pay for his own toys (no allowance). He learned the value of money at that tender age. The moment he could get his working papers (14), I persuaded him to get a job teaching little kids how to swim at the local YMCA. He learned to deal with little kids and their obnoxious, overbearing parents. Within 2 years, he was a lifeguard, although he still picked up shifts as an instructor. He actually saved someone from drowning. He's a stable Millennial now; good job, own apartment, more savings than most of his contemporaries. It would never have occurred to me for him not to get that first job at 14. See, it is the parents who either encourage their children to grow up and become a productive part of the community, or not. Sure, as a society we should be un-ghettoizing the age groups, but my society starts in my home. Think globally; act locally.
John Taylor Gatto, educator and education scholar, argued that age-segregated schooling was a Prussian innovation--to create soldiers and bureaucrats who would take orders. In mixed-aged schooling, older kids take responsibility for guiding the younger ones. Not good for Bismarck’s vision.
You forgot Sunday School...and children's church. Way too much "age graded" to develop well rounded people of any type.
When I was in junior girl scouts, in the late 70s and before they went woke, I took an official Red Cross babysitting class. I remember that the guidelines were that you could babysit during the day at age 10, and at night at 11. Today, if your parents let you out of their sight at that age, they'd be arrested and you'd be in foster care.
I think the discussion needs to expand to include expectations. We were expected to have a paper route around age 10, to wash cars, mow lawns, shovel snow, all to earn some money. After school and summer jobs normal. In turn we expected to be outside all day unsupervised, to ride the bike to the lake or river, or take a long hike. Always have a dime in your pocket for a phone call, and be home for dinner.
Acting responsibly is a response to being expected to behave responsibly.
Who benefits from the current segregation? The teachers and those who manage the stratification. Back in the day there were 92 kids in one class in First Grade, and all Grades were in the same school. Recess had hundreds of kids outside. Way to hard a problem for the teachers, although the students were well behaved. Everyone packed their own lunch, just like Dad did. Discipline was administered on the spot, and parents respected that role for the teachers.
Short summary: Expectations matter. We need more of them at all levels.
One great thing about things as diverse as fraternal orders (say Masons or Eagles) and martial arts (traditional styles) was the range of ages. Both had people from 18 (fraternal) or mid teens (15-16) through to their 90s. And in both, to be part of the club, you have to work hard and do it right. The ability to talk to someone 1o to 50 years older on an equal footing help a boy grow a lot.
These observations are unquestionably true, especially when you contemplate that as recently as the Second World War we were sending troops into combat who were overwhelmingly 17-20 years old. The average age in the Eighth Air Force was 19, and a pilot who was 22 was “Pops”. Teenagers were driving tanks, launching torpedos, parachuting into hostile territory.
Today they fall into a fetal position if subjected to a micro aggression.
Wonderful article.
Made me think about my own growing up time. My parents had some means, but at age 12 I still had a lawn mowing business (10 yards every week). At age 14, I had a 70 customer paper route. I’d also caddy at the local golf course. At 17, I pumped gas and cleaned windshields at a gas station. I didn’t think this was unusual. It’s just what one did! Having good work and money making habits are very positive things to develop. (My adolescence was in the 1960s.) [My parents came of age during the Depression and I heard many, many stories about the tough times of the 1930s.]
100% on target Prof Reynolds.
Without getting too political its clear to me that Dems first weaponized age differences to appeal to seniors and fear monger "pushing granny off the cliff", Social Security etc, then tribalized and trivialized youth niches from Occupy to Antifa, to climate apocalyptic cultist, and now that progtarded marxist tribal alliance is going after them...the despised Boomers who screwed them over and killing the planet.
It wont end well.
Granny Pelosi and Crazy Auntie Maxine got some 'splainin' to do...
An excellent piece on an important topic.
But how to widen the discussion?
You've really touched on something quite important here, Perfesser....
Very eye-opening article to me as a parent of a 19 yo college student. It opened my eyes to greater differences between the youth of today and my part-time jobs in high school and college, where I was always the youngest employee learning from others with decades of experience. I (and he) will benefit from the insights you gave me. Thank you!
I agree completely Glenn. I learned way more from working around older adults than I ever did in concrete jungles of school where the most savage were respected. We need to break up age segregation again and let the young learn alongside their elders who set a good example.